Two-day event, same location, same long weekend. Looks like Nice is a superb course, but the allure of Kona is strongly evident for pros, amateurs, vendors. Ironman isn't publicly traded, so no obligation to shareholder values, although the capital equity investors who own IM still want to make money. My understanding is that Ironman doesn't lose money when in Kona, yet Nice is an event which is in the red (is that true?). For a two-day event in Kona, could there be a shift where some volunteers become temporary employees and get paid? Would that help make it viable? And limit field sizes.
I'm not sure about how much they make on Kona, though yeah word was they lost money this year on Nice. I think part of a WC event though is a loss leader, bc it drives so much larger business in the ecosystem, so I'm not 100% convinced it has to make huge profits on its own bc it drives other signups to other races
I do keep thinking about 70.3 Worlds and how everyone said that was a joke for years and then it became legit. And then everyone hated on how they gave the women equal spots and said it was too easy. And all the other stuff. And now it's by far their most profitable distance and hugely successful. I think it takes time to build these things
Just saw your comment about the dolphins and the shark.
My friend did the swim the week prior to the race and he saw tons of talking dolphins.
The shark, apparently a big tigershark named Lorraine prowls around Honokohou harbor which is just up the stree from the Kona pier. I’m sure that distance is nothing for a big tiger shark. Apparently the large tigers cover the entire archipelago from the Big Island all the way to Midway Atoll. They are REALLY good swimmers. It’s their world we just dip into it every once in awhile. So long as there are enough turtles and baby albatross humans don’t need to worry too much.
Of course they are gonna sacrifice the women, because men! So, i live part time on Hawaii and have many friends there. Ialso volunteered at the two day race.
It was not just 10 people complain, it was a lotta people grumbling and bitching about the traffic, the trash and the rude triathletes. The Bid Island is a small place, word gets around quickly. So, you don’t need to call the mayor because you know his cousin and can bitch to them…and logistically finding enoigh volunteers to be on for two whole days pluswhatever happens in between is very hard.
It is hard on an island to accomodate that many extra people. Not just space-wise but also resource and trash-wise.
Everybody poops, that poop has to go somewhere. Everybody makes trash, so add about 10 000 plus people and their prodigous trash (yes, triathletes i am looking at you:gels, bars etc) and then understand thst the Big Island is running out of place to put its trash and you see where thisgoes sidewise pretty quick. That’s even talking about people misbehaving and being rude and disrespectful to the local people and culture.
My vote is for two venues and keep Nice. European triathlon is very male and in order for it to change young women and girls need to see women doing this thing in Europe.
As for logistics being difficult, FFS they have put on IM Nice for many years. And they put on IM Hamburg, Frankfurt, Copenhagen and so on.. so, don’t give me logistics are difficult!
So there i put my 2 cents in.
Having said that i still want to do “my” championship in Kona.
Yeah, smaller towns it's also easier for small problems to feel like big problems, because as you said everyone knows someone who was upset or who had to wait in line, etc. In a bigger city it just gets swallowed up. So, it's both more of an impact in Kona and it's easier for it to FEEL like more of an impact.
Possibly. Another contributing factor might have been that Hawaii was shut down completely to tourism for the pandemic, so to open with such a big event may have been too much too soon. Additionally, the Big Island has always had a love-hate relationship with tourism, congestion due to giant your buses, tourists slowing on the road and not really understanding the relationship that people have to their island and the waters surrounding it. Having been there ruring the 2 day thing…it WAS a lot….
But i think for ironman to restrict women’s spots and returning to the “old” model would suck and be a slap in the face of women athletes. Equal means equal.
Yeah, I think the two-day kinda came too much right after all that no tourism, and there's probably ways to make it less impactful. But also it'll always be a lot
But I dunno what other option there is bc going backwards seems really stupid
One of the things I have been wondering about is why did they hold this years Kona race two week later? Next year it is back to the more traditional weekend. Do you think Ironman may have been testing out other dates to have two races in Kona but separated be a few weeks? The fact the slot allocation is so low for 2025 Women's race is suspect. Thanks for you insight.
I, for one, really like your notion of a 2-day, 1,800x2 event in a single (rotating) location. For all the reasons you articulate, but also because a single location brings the entire community together, and there's something special and important in doing that, especially in a sport where it happens so infrequently. As much as I loved Nice last year, my joy was mostly about the bike course and my Francophonic passions. Beyond that, the vibe and the energy that I've experienced at Kona was lacking. It just felt like the community was weirdly bifurcated, and that diminished the experience. (Side note: It was so much fun and such a bonus to be able to RACE and to SPECTATE at Kona 2022. Every time I race, I think "how cool would it be to cheer from the sidelines here?" The two-day model made it possible to do both.) Anyhow, women absolutely deserve their own day, their own coverage, their own glory, and I think everyone would definitely benefit from a world championship model that was more like a full community gathering or festival.
Two-day event, same location, same long weekend. Looks like Nice is a superb course, but the allure of Kona is strongly evident for pros, amateurs, vendors. Ironman isn't publicly traded, so no obligation to shareholder values, although the capital equity investors who own IM still want to make money. My understanding is that Ironman doesn't lose money when in Kona, yet Nice is an event which is in the red (is that true?). For a two-day event in Kona, could there be a shift where some volunteers become temporary employees and get paid? Would that help make it viable? And limit field sizes.
I'm not sure about how much they make on Kona, though yeah word was they lost money this year on Nice. I think part of a WC event though is a loss leader, bc it drives so much larger business in the ecosystem, so I'm not 100% convinced it has to make huge profits on its own bc it drives other signups to other races
I do keep thinking about 70.3 Worlds and how everyone said that was a joke for years and then it became legit. And then everyone hated on how they gave the women equal spots and said it was too easy. And all the other stuff. And now it's by far their most profitable distance and hugely successful. I think it takes time to build these things
Just saw your comment about the dolphins and the shark.
My friend did the swim the week prior to the race and he saw tons of talking dolphins.
The shark, apparently a big tigershark named Lorraine prowls around Honokohou harbor which is just up the stree from the Kona pier. I’m sure that distance is nothing for a big tiger shark. Apparently the large tigers cover the entire archipelago from the Big Island all the way to Midway Atoll. They are REALLY good swimmers. It’s their world we just dip into it every once in awhile. So long as there are enough turtles and baby albatross humans don’t need to worry too much.
Now the dolphins…….lol
Of course they are gonna sacrifice the women, because men! So, i live part time on Hawaii and have many friends there. Ialso volunteered at the two day race.
It was not just 10 people complain, it was a lotta people grumbling and bitching about the traffic, the trash and the rude triathletes. The Bid Island is a small place, word gets around quickly. So, you don’t need to call the mayor because you know his cousin and can bitch to them…and logistically finding enoigh volunteers to be on for two whole days pluswhatever happens in between is very hard.
It is hard on an island to accomodate that many extra people. Not just space-wise but also resource and trash-wise.
Everybody poops, that poop has to go somewhere. Everybody makes trash, so add about 10 000 plus people and their prodigous trash (yes, triathletes i am looking at you:gels, bars etc) and then understand thst the Big Island is running out of place to put its trash and you see where thisgoes sidewise pretty quick. That’s even talking about people misbehaving and being rude and disrespectful to the local people and culture.
My vote is for two venues and keep Nice. European triathlon is very male and in order for it to change young women and girls need to see women doing this thing in Europe.
As for logistics being difficult, FFS they have put on IM Nice for many years. And they put on IM Hamburg, Frankfurt, Copenhagen and so on.. so, don’t give me logistics are difficult!
So there i put my 2 cents in.
Having said that i still want to do “my” championship in Kona.
Yeah, smaller towns it's also easier for small problems to feel like big problems, because as you said everyone knows someone who was upset or who had to wait in line, etc. In a bigger city it just gets swallowed up. So, it's both more of an impact in Kona and it's easier for it to FEEL like more of an impact.
Possibly. Another contributing factor might have been that Hawaii was shut down completely to tourism for the pandemic, so to open with such a big event may have been too much too soon. Additionally, the Big Island has always had a love-hate relationship with tourism, congestion due to giant your buses, tourists slowing on the road and not really understanding the relationship that people have to their island and the waters surrounding it. Having been there ruring the 2 day thing…it WAS a lot….
But i think for ironman to restrict women’s spots and returning to the “old” model would suck and be a slap in the face of women athletes. Equal means equal.
Yeah, I think the two-day kinda came too much right after all that no tourism, and there's probably ways to make it less impactful. But also it'll always be a lot
But I dunno what other option there is bc going backwards seems really stupid
One of the things I have been wondering about is why did they hold this years Kona race two week later? Next year it is back to the more traditional weekend. Do you think Ironman may have been testing out other dates to have two races in Kona but separated be a few weeks? The fact the slot allocation is so low for 2025 Women's race is suspect. Thanks for you insight.
Yeah, I don't know why it got pushed two weeks, I figured it had to do with scheduling logistics on the backend, lots of factors that go into that
I, for one, really like your notion of a 2-day, 1,800x2 event in a single (rotating) location. For all the reasons you articulate, but also because a single location brings the entire community together, and there's something special and important in doing that, especially in a sport where it happens so infrequently. As much as I loved Nice last year, my joy was mostly about the bike course and my Francophonic passions. Beyond that, the vibe and the energy that I've experienced at Kona was lacking. It just felt like the community was weirdly bifurcated, and that diminished the experience. (Side note: It was so much fun and such a bonus to be able to RACE and to SPECTATE at Kona 2022. Every time I race, I think "how cool would it be to cheer from the sidelines here?" The two-day model made it possible to do both.) Anyhow, women absolutely deserve their own day, their own coverage, their own glory, and I think everyone would definitely benefit from a world championship model that was more like a full community gathering or festival.
It seems logical, a two-day slightly smaller (no need for 2400 people in each race) rotation. Like 70.3 Worlds, which has become so popular